Comments on: Hate, props, and hotness: restoring journalism’s credibility http://hackerjournalist.net/2008/08/20/hate-props-and-hotness-restoring-journalisms-credibility/ Like a photo journalist, but with a laptop Sat, 13 Mar 2010 18:29:16 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.7.1 hourly 1 By: Brian Boyer http://hackerjournalist.net/2008/08/20/hate-props-and-hotness-restoring-journalisms-credibility/comment-page-1/#comment-90 Brian Boyer Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:24:34 +0000 http://sixthw.com/?p=151#comment-90 Shafqat - Yep! Shafqat - Yep!

]]> By: Shafqat http://hackerjournalist.net/2008/08/20/hate-props-and-hotness-restoring-journalisms-credibility/comment-page-1/#comment-89 Shafqat Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:19:01 +0000 http://sixthw.com/?p=151#comment-89 Brian - the people who think its a bad idea, are most of them in the journalism industry? Brian - the people who think its a bad idea, are most of them in the journalism industry?

]]> By: Brian Boyer http://hackerjournalist.net/2008/08/20/hate-props-and-hotness-restoring-journalisms-credibility/comment-page-1/#comment-88 Brian Boyer Fri, 22 Aug 2008 19:06:08 +0000 http://sixthw.com/?p=151#comment-88 Hey, Shafqat. Thanks for your thoughts. The source of the heat is that most folks I talk to think NewsCred is a bad idea. I don't know if it's an awesome idea, but I figure it's worth a shot. Maybe I'm just an ignorant outsider, but it seems to me that journalism is in such trouble, we should be trying everything to keep it afloat. Hey, Shafqat. Thanks for your thoughts. The source of the heat is that most folks I talk to think NewsCred is a bad idea. I don’t know if it’s an awesome idea, but I figure it’s worth a shot.

Maybe I’m just an ignorant outsider, but it seems to me that journalism is in such trouble, we should be trying everything to keep it afloat.

]]> By: Shafqat http://hackerjournalist.net/2008/08/20/hate-props-and-hotness-restoring-journalisms-credibility/comment-page-1/#comment-87 Shafqat Thu, 21 Aug 2008 22:07:27 +0000 http://sixthw.com/?p=151#comment-87 Fascinating post, and intriguing comments. @Aron - Drudge has been a source on NewsCred from day 1. I think you must have just missed it. Fake Steve Jobs is slightly ironic, but so is the Sun and Daily Mirror. If they aren't quality sources, they will be voted down (as they have been). We just didn't want to take editorial judgment when it came to source selection since that would defeat the point. @Brian - why did you get heat? For having a strong opinion and sticking to it?! To both of you, I'm glad you agree that this is a problem that needs fixing. Perhaps NewsCred's voting system is too simple and we should add granularity. Perhaps we could rate the raters. Lots of possibilities, and we're always looking for feedback. I just don't think we should dismiss the news reader's ability to determine if an article is well written, or fact checker, or biased, or transparent etc. As Brian says, you trust them when buying a book or camera, so let's try this experiment with news. We're all ears, and we have a ton of journalists on board who want to help us make this work. As Gandhi said, it's better to light one candle than curse the darkness! Fascinating post, and intriguing comments.

@Aron - Drudge has been a source on NewsCred from day 1. I think you must have just missed it. Fake Steve Jobs is slightly ironic, but so is the Sun and Daily Mirror. If they aren’t quality sources, they will be voted down (as they have been). We just didn’t want to take editorial judgment when it came to source selection since that would defeat the point.

@Brian - why did you get heat? For having a strong opinion and sticking to it?!

To both of you, I’m glad you agree that this is a problem that needs fixing. Perhaps NewsCred’s voting system is too simple and we should add granularity. Perhaps we could rate the raters. Lots of possibilities, and we’re always looking for feedback. I just don’t think we should dismiss the news reader’s ability to determine if an article is well written, or fact checker, or biased, or transparent etc. As Brian says, you trust them when buying a book or camera, so let’s try this experiment with news. We’re all ears, and we have a ton of journalists on board who want to help us make this work. As Gandhi said, it’s better to light one candle than curse the darkness!

]]> By: Brian Boyer http://hackerjournalist.net/2008/08/20/hate-props-and-hotness-restoring-journalisms-credibility/comment-page-1/#comment-92 Brian Boyer Thu, 21 Aug 2008 16:26:43 +0000 http://sixthw.com/?p=151#comment-92 I've gotten some heat about this post -- maybe it's worth re-framing the question. Instead of "will NewsCred work?" how about "does journalism's credibility problem need a drastic solution?" I agree that credibility is best built from experience over time, but that knowledge is locked away in the minds of readers. And in the age of the web, where we have thousands if not millions of sources of information, isn't it useful to have a place where it's written down publicly? Is it arrogant to deride NewsCred as a popularity contest? When I buy a digital camera, I pay close attention to the user ratings at Digital Photography Review. When I buy anything on Amazon, I always read at the reviews. Why don't I deserve the same when selecting a news source? I'm not choosing between the two local papers. How am I to select between The Irish Times and The Jerusalem Post? I need to find context in the cacophony. We'll see how they do. Maybe NewsCred sucks, but they've found an itch that needs scratching. If anybody's got a better idea on how to tackle this, let's talk. We can build it. I’ve gotten some heat about this post — maybe it’s worth re-framing the question. Instead of “will NewsCred work?” how about “does journalism’s credibility problem need a drastic solution?”

I agree that credibility is best built from experience over time, but that knowledge is locked away in the minds of readers. And in the age of the web, where we have thousands if not millions of sources of information, isn’t it useful to have a place where it’s written down publicly?

Is it arrogant to deride NewsCred as a popularity contest? When I buy a digital camera, I pay close attention to the user ratings at Digital Photography Review. When I buy anything on Amazon, I always read at the reviews.

Why don’t I deserve the same when selecting a news source? I’m not choosing between the two local papers. How am I to select between The Irish Times and The Jerusalem Post? I need to find context in the cacophony.

We’ll see how they do. Maybe NewsCred sucks, but they’ve found an itch that needs scratching. If anybody’s got a better idea on how to tackle this, let’s talk. We can build it.

]]> By: Aron Pilhofer http://hackerjournalist.net/2008/08/20/hate-props-and-hotness-restoring-journalisms-credibility/comment-page-1/#comment-91 Aron Pilhofer Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:49:42 +0000 http://sixthw.com/?p=151#comment-91 Interesting idea, but NewsCred ultimately fails. Credibility is not synonymous with popularity, and users voting on "truthiness" is more the former than the latter. Credibility is earned in the abstract over time, not won through some kind of popularity contest. It is fundamental to an organization's methods. I suspect this is why newscred excludes bloggers like Drudge, who by NewsCred's measure would be among (if not the) most credible news sources on the web. (I also find it odd that they find Fake Steve Jobs?!? to have enough baseline credibility to include it in their list of blog sources...but that's another discussion I guess.) I agree that there is a problem needing a solution, I just don't think NewsCred is it. Interesting idea, but NewsCred ultimately fails. Credibility is not synonymous with popularity, and users voting on “truthiness” is more the former than the latter. Credibility is earned in the abstract over time, not won through some kind of popularity contest. It is fundamental to an organization’s methods. I suspect this is why newscred excludes bloggers like Drudge, who by NewsCred’s measure would be among (if not the) most credible news sources on the web. (I also find it odd that they find Fake Steve Jobs?!? to have enough baseline credibility to include it in their list of blog sources…but that’s another discussion I guess.)

I agree that there is a problem needing a solution, I just don’t think NewsCred is it.

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